tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post6366458591710098979..comments2024-01-20T23:55:26.269-08:00Comments on The Detritus Review: Critic in WonderlandUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-28284365910767907052009-08-13T16:24:18.376-07:002009-08-13T16:24:18.376-07:00on form: I suppose this is a question of degree. ...on form: I suppose this is a question of degree. Form is already a loosely appropriated word (eg. how often do you find words like "binary" and "ternary" to be vague and debatable). Is strophic not a form? how about versus/chorus? <br /><br />On some levels, a sonata is a form that dictates change/contrast from its musical material. A sonata is underpinned by the battle between dissonance and a relative tonic. Contrarily, a theme and variations is the opposite, comprised of invariants, musical elements that do not change against a set of transformations. <br /><br />Forms are dictated by their levels of organization -- how measures are grouped, motifs, melodies, arrangements of accents in rhythmic phrases, cadences, and so on. T&V is just the same dictated by these same elements. It is certainly a very versatile form allowing for variations in the form of passacaglias or chaconnes, or other polyphonic or contrapuntal constructs, but its effects are still the same. T&Vs are not dictated in the way that harmonic variation is dictated in a sonata, but an element does sit at the center of the T&V -- only it is invariance. It is a non-developmental form at its core (although, it can conform with developmental forms, such as the rondo and ternaries).gustavnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-5532385576650862552009-08-13T15:23:04.615-07:002009-08-13T15:23:04.615-07:00re: Form,
I guess, Gustav. I guess. If a box is...re: Form,<br /><br />I guess, Gustav. I guess. If a box is a form, then: fine. But if a form *does* something besides merely contain, then Variations is not a very effective form. Perhaps I've thought about it too much.<br /><br />re: Sound and Feel,<br /><br />If, by your reasoning, the music "sounds" and/or "feels" like Pop, why is it not pop? Because it's thorough-composed? Which is exactly what a track on an album is (with some notable exceptions). In fact, the track "creator" or whatever you want to call him/her has far more control over the sound of his actual product than a composer writing a piece on paper to be realized by performers with acoustic instruments.<br /><br />Is recorded music the new classical music? Or only if it's not in four-bar groups?<br /><br />More soon,<br />regards,<br />SASator Arepohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00006808744513156317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-47741370116005738322009-08-13T13:58:15.556-07:002009-08-13T13:58:15.556-07:00A few things:
1) The Carroll quotes are simply ama...A few things:<br />1) The Carroll quotes are simply amazing. <br /><br />2)"...new music that's full of personality" -- is he trying to say the music was fat and probably ugly?<br /><br />C) Is Reich pop? yes. Much more popular than babbitt or carter. Is it a coincidence that the most popular composers of the past 40 years (Glass, Reich, Adams, Corigliano, Williams) all write in neo-romantic, tonal styles? Or, with glass, reich and early Adams, repetitive forms that often utilize "pop" chord progressions?<br /><br />4) I agree with Sir AnthonyS, Theme and Variations is a form. I understand the objections you're making SA, but it does have formal parts...one being the statement of the theme, and rest being variations. Simply put, it's an A A' A'' A''' A''''' A'''''' A''''''', etc., form. Even if modern interpretations of that form have difficult to dissect boundaries (much like modern sonatas), they ostensibly still exist.<br /><br />V) Also, not to harp, but I think the attacks on words like "sound" and "feel" may be inappropriate here. Music is still largely an emotional experience and "feel" is how we talk about emotion. However, these words can be abused, and, more likely, be employed to state absolutely nothing. But I think that "pop music" has become an accepted colloquialism and carries a certain number of standard meanings, not least of which would be triadic, up-beat, repetitive (largely in 4 bar groupings), simple, etc.<br /><br />6) I know that "dissonant" is a word that often sets of the alarms of the Detrital Halls, but I don't this writer offends. I don't think he suggests that mozart didn't use dissonance to "brighten and sharpen", but that this composer did, and it it was noticable, and it effective. "Dissonant 'outside' notes birghtened the colors and sharpened the musical poetry," sounds about right to me. It's obviously a very generic, nearly meaningless thought when you think about it--but it's probably true.<br /><br />G) Yes, "world music" is a most loathesome term. Plus "world music" also often sucks -- and it often feels like "pop" to me.Gustavnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-76060115357475963252009-08-13T09:47:47.652-07:002009-08-13T09:47:47.652-07:00AnthonyS:
I guess I'm saying it's not a &...AnthonyS:<br /><br />I guess I'm saying it's not a "form" in that it doesn't have any formal functions. The name describes what it "is" in a way, I guess, but not what it "does"--because it doesn't *do* anything (formally).<br /><br />In a way, I could see it as a proto-cubist sort of form, showing latent possibilities in a theme, but that seems perscriptive. Too often it seems like a page from a sketchbook or something.<br /><br />Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it's almost like a fantasia (on themes of blah-de-blah), which again is a name for a kind of piece but not a formal form, if you will.Sator Arepohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00006808744513156317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-85970173032975231512009-08-12T22:41:20.841-07:002009-08-12T22:41:20.841-07:00Hilarious stuff.
Not sure that I agree that Theme...Hilarious stuff.<br /><br />Not sure that I agree that Theme and Variations isn't a form, though. It seems to me that Beethoven took it very serious as a form, devoting movements of several piano sonatas and such to them. I'm not sure another large form label really works for any of them. Or are you referring to it not being a form in criticspeak? Perhaps I'm just not understanding what you are saying.AnthonyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13162009600236566716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-81282383961145185532009-08-12T22:23:08.190-07:002009-08-12T22:23:08.190-07:00Goddamn formatting problems.Goddamn formatting problems.Sator Arepohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00006808744513156317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3371351138596055444.post-71609871311119708152009-08-11T19:49:10.981-07:002009-08-11T19:49:10.981-07:00"Pleasing pulses" is...
Well, I could ..."Pleasing pulses" is... <br /><br />Well, I could say that Ferneyhough has pleasing pulses, i.e. andantes, largos and what have you. But that phrase just doesn't mean anything, unless for some reason allegro vivaces cause one to convulse, which I'm pretty sure they don't.<br /><br />Nice Lewis Carroll references!Empiricushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11629835829400843701noreply@blogger.com